Navigating Stress and Burnout: Harnessing Emotional Intelligence for Lasting Well-being

Unlock the secrets to overcoming burnout by cultivating peace and emotional well-being in this riveting episode of "Emotional Intelligence: Your Greatest Asset and Key to Success." We explore how finding joy in your role, whether it’s through event planning or mentoring, can be transformative. Special guest Anne DeButte, a seasoned grief expert, joins me as we explore the impacts of persistent stress and burnout on our overall well-being and how emotional intelligence can be your ally in navigating these challenges.

Are you perpetually stressed and in fight-or-flight mode? Discover the transformative power of mindful breathing in our next segment. We dive deep into how stress and anxiety lead to shallow breathing, keeping you in a constant state of alert. Learn practical mindfulness exercises and simple techniques to calm your nervous system, especially if traditional meditation feels overwhelming. We also discuss the negative impact of constant screen time and the irreplaceable value of genuine human connection.

Struggling with job burnout? Hear Jami's personal journey of leaving an unfulfilling job to prioritize happiness and passion. We discuss the importance of aligning your career with personal values and finding small ways to find satisfaction in your current role. This episode encourages self-discovery and emotional awareness, highlighting the necessity of processing emotions and recognizing the influence of societal expectations. Join us for a conversation filled with practical advice and personal stories designed to help you navigate life's challenges with greater emotional intelligence.

Chapters

• 0:00 Finding Your Pathway to Peace
• 4:53 The Power of Mindful Breathing
• 20:15 Realigning Values to Prevent Burnout
• 28:18 Navigating Emotions and Finding Support

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

But find one thing that makes you feel good about who you are, and it might be that you like to organize. They may all come to you and get you to organize the Christmas party or something else, or it may be you're a mentor. You bring people who are new in the company under your wing. Just find that one thing that makes you feel good about what it is you're doing there, why you're even there.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Welcome to the podcast Emotional Intelligence your greatest asset and key to success. I'm your host, dr Jamie Carlaccio, coming to you from the Greater New Haven, connecticut area, as an emotional intelligence or EQ coach. I'm committed to helping people develop both emotional intelligence and mental fitness. That is, you'll come to regard problems as situations that help you learn and grow. Eq is a way of being and doing in the world that enables you to develop and sustain a positive relationship with yourself and others, at home, at work and everywhere in between. Please subscribe to this podcast and tap the like button so more people can enjoy the benefits of EQ. And now here's the show. And now here's the show. Hello and welcome everybody, and thank you for joining us. I'm very excited.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Today. I have a wonderful guest named Anne DeButte, and she is a grief expert, and she's also quite well-versed in burnout, and that's what we're going to talk about today quite well versed in burnout, and that's what we're going to talk about today, and so I want to tell you a few things about Anne that you may not know. If you have not heard of Anne, you will after today. She is a multi-passionate soul, which is just a lovely way of saying that she's a multi-passionate soul who falls down way too many rabbit holes, but these are good rabbit holes. She learns from them and then she serves that learning with her clients.

Speaker 2: 2:09

She has been a grief and loss coach for more than 10 years and she is the author of a book Grief's Abyss Finding your Pathway to Peace and I just absolutely love that title. And all of this information will be in the show notes, fear not. And for the past six years she is also a podcast host, and she has hosted a podcast called let's Talk About Grief. And as a former nurse who saw the miracles of how the body heals and so she said, why not the heart? Absolutely Her happiest moments are when her clients are no longer her clients. Welcome, anne, thank you for being here today. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:52

Jamie, I'm so grateful that you asked me to jump on your podcast, so thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:59

Yeah, so you and I talked earlier about this, and since I'd already done an episode on grief, you and I got to talking about burnout, and burnout is a thing that's an understatement, isn't it? Oh?

Speaker 1: 3:19

yes.

Speaker 2: 3:20

I hear people talking about burnout all the time, not only at work, but just burnout in general, and I was just kind of doing some research on it and one of the things that comes up are overwhelm, anxiety and stress and all of those, and you're a nurse so you can speak to this and all of those and you're a nurse, so you can speak to this that when we're in this constant mode of anxiety or stress, we have these cortisol levels in our system and that makes everything worse and it's sort of like our amygdala kicks into play and we're in this fight flight, freeze mode all the time, and so, of course, we're burnt out if we're always in that mode.

Speaker 2: 4:08

And I used to live in that mode all the time and I didn't even know it and people would always tell me to chill out or relax, and it drove me crazy, to be honest, because I didn't know a. I didn't know what I didn't know, but I also didn't realize that I was in that constant mode. So I had headaches all the time, I was tired, I was irritable and I didn't like my life, I wasn't happy, and so burnout isn't just about oh, I hate my job and I don't want to go to work, although that's a big part of it, but there's a lot more to burnout than that. So why don't we just start with that to kick off our conversation?

Speaker 1: 4:53

Okay, jamie, yeah, you've nailed some of the symptoms and certainly people will say, oh, just chill. What they need to add to the end of that sentence chill and take a breath. Because when you think about it, when you're in stress, what's your breathing doing? Your shallow breathing? You're signaling to the body that something isn't right and the body's going. Do I need to run, do I need to fight or do I just need to stand there like a deer in the headlights? So the shallow breathing is signaling to the brain all of those things. The body doesn't feel safe.

Speaker 1: 5:40

So by taking a breath, so by taking a breath and literally chilling for just 10 seconds, even can help to bring the body back into its natural, regulated state, because some part of the brain is going to go. Oh, we seem to be breathing. What's going on here? I thought we were, you know, fleeing, but now we're not Okay and I don't think people recognize how much the breath is needed and I'm sure, just by mentioning what, just pay attention to your breath right now. This is for your listeners, this is for you, jamie. What is your breath doing? Are you able to take nice, long, slow, deep breaths? Are you kind of belly breathing or are you breathing from your chest?

Speaker 2: 6:44

I think and I'm not sure I'm talking only for myself I do think a lot of us breathe from our chest and that's why I think people find meditation apps so helpful, because they at least school us, even if it's just for 10 minutes or five minutes or whatever a half hour, however long you feel like you can set aside, just to say oh, like you said, just breathe. And I actually do have to remember to breathe, and when I am upset, if I'm talking with somebody who has any modicum of empathy, they'll say just breathe, just breathe. And it's like oh, like you say, you know we forget, and just the breathing is a signal then to our body oh, it's okay, this is a paper. I call it a paper tiger. I think you know, back in Neolithic times there were real tigers to worry about, but now a lot of times we have paper tigers to worry about. But now a lot of times we have paper tigers.

Speaker 2: 7:48

And that isn't to diminish what's going on in your life. It isn't to diminish the real things that might happen at work that stress us out, or the things that happen at home. An argument, a conflict, a near accident on the highway can send us into that mode. I know I get cut off in traffic so often that I do drive like I'm in tense mode, but so those things happen. But oftentimes, if we can put it into perspective, is this imminent? Am I in imminent danger? Is this something I need to really really be concerned about, or do I need to step back and put it in context?

Speaker 1: 8:29

Yeah, exactly, I can hear your listeners already groaning. You mentioned meditation. There are so many in the world that mention meditation. It's like nails on a chalkboard they can't sit still long enough, they cannot still their minds, and there's a reason for a lot of people not being able to do that and it's because there's trauma and it's the trauma that's potentially their bodies don't feel safe enough to to be able to process it and by sitting and attempting to come into their bodies it's going to put them into that heightened state. So meditation works for some, but not everybody.

Speaker 1: 9:21

This is why um, I know you're a student of positive intelligence. I'm certified in it that I just love the very simple exercises. People say I don't have time to stand and breathe, but you probably have time to just put your fingers together and just pay attention to all the ridges on your thumbs and your forefingers. Or just put your hands together as almost as if you're praying, and just rub them up and down. Just that simple thing is just sort of saying to the body it's okay, we're all right.

Speaker 1: 10:01

But when you think about how fast paced our society has become, you just have to go out and look at you down the street. Everybody is face down on their phones. They the brain needs a certain amount of time just to daydream. So even if they could put their phones in their pocket just for a minute and take 10 steps and just look up, look at the sky there may be a weed growing in the sidewalk. Pay attention to it. Just that, very just doing that for 10 seconds can bring your body back into its regular state.

Speaker 1: 10:49

But when we're on the go from morning to night, we take our phones to bed. We're lying there watching the screens. It really does help to turn them off. Mine is off, you know 5.30, 6 o'clock. I shut everything down and I'm present. I'm present with my husband. We're human beings. We need that connection, jamie, and being on our screens doesn't give us that. Yes, you and I are connecting, but how much you and I are connecting? But how much calming, how much better would it be for our nervous systems to be in person and I could, you know, give you a hug to sort of calm the nervous system down, or just touch you on the shoulder and say yeah, even just that, Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:42

Yeah. So I want to just go back to meditation for a moment because, like you said, people might grit their teeth and what I have found is we often misconstrue meditation as something like you got to be Khalil Gibran or you have to be a Zen master, you have to go to a Buddhist monastery. But meditation can also be, again in positive intelligence terms, being aware, just being aware of what's going on right now and that awareness. So interrupting, interrupting any of the things that can sabotage our thinking and that might mean a conflict, it might mean something, you know, your monkey mind going crazy. But when we start developing I talk a lot about the PQ gym here in the muscle when we interrupt that process, like you said, as simple as rubbing your fingertips together or breathing, or I sometimes I even just stare at the lines in my hand.

Speaker 1: 12:43

Or.

Speaker 2: 12:44

I just, you know, I've gotten a little bit of practice doing this over the past couple of years. Oh, wait a second. I'm running around like a mad chicken right now, yeah, but what I found is that I don't have to meditate for a long period of time. I can stop in the middle of my day and think of things I'm grateful for, I can just breathe. When my child was young he's 17, now in high school, so it doesn't really apply now because he just hides out in his bedroom and I hardly ever see him out, because he just hides out in his bedroom and I hardly ever see him.

Speaker 2: 13:27

But he used to be glued to me and I didn't have a moment's rest because it was like I was either making sure he didn't kill himself by getting something out of the cupboard that he wasn't supposed to get, or he needed to get dressed, or I needed to go. I would go to my bathroom and I would sit on the floor and I would play a gratitude meditation for five minutes and that's all I needed. That calmed me down and that centered me. And, yeah, maybe I needed to do it again at six o'clock at night, but the point is I just snatched what I could, and it didn't have to be a certain length of time. What did have to happen, though, was that I needed to be alone and I needed to claim that space, and for me it was the bathroom floor, because that was the only place I could close a door and not be interrupted for five minutes.

Speaker 1: 14:23

Exactly During COVID, I was invited to go to a number of nursing homes and retirement homes here in the city because, as we know, the healthcare profession had gone through a lot. There was a lot of stress, a lot of overwhelm and a lot of burnout and there was a lot of grief behind that. And I was teaching them how to recognize the grief but also giving them tips on how they could sort of handle their stress in the moment. And they would often say to me I don't have time for that, you don't understand that. So when I began positive intelligence, I just wished I'd had more of it. When I was being involved with these wonderful beings that took care of us during that time would have been to sort of share with them. You do have more time. I'll finish my thought, then I'll go back. You do have more time than you think.

Speaker 1: 15:30

When you're with a patient, you can just look at their. A patient, you can just look at their hair. You can just look at their, their body. I mean, as nurses, we do a physical assessment with our eyes every time we go into a patient's room. It's just something that we're taught to do. You're, you're looking to see how the patient is. So you just focus on something it could be their gown or their hair and just take a couple of breaths on that, and that can bring you into your own body, rather than thinking, oh, I've got to get through this patient because so-and-so's waiting, I've got bed baths, I've got charting and all the things that nurses have to do.

Speaker 1: 16:14

So that was. I'm sharing that now with my positive intelligence tips. But back then I would say to them well, do you get to go to the bathroom? And they would say yes, and I would say, well, for that minute, just pay attention to your breath or just stare at the color. You know, look at the color in front of you, just sort of roam your eyes around a little bit, and that'll bring you back into yourself. So when you mentioned uh, you needed to escape to the bathroom. I'm sure a lot of your listeners can appreciate that, and I'm sure a lot with small children, although I'm not sure a closed door works too well with small children.

Speaker 2: 17:03

Well, yeah, In this case my husband was around.

Speaker 1: 17:07

It wasn't like, oh, Javier's got five minutes to roam the house. God forbid, it would have burned down a long time ago. But normally they're knocking on the door.

Speaker 2: 17:21

Oh yeah, mommy mommy, exactly so, and even when he was really little, I would put him in one of those little I think it was like called a jungle, something you just stick them in in and their legs hang out, and he had something to occupy himself so I could at least shower.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Yeah, you, you would be okay. He would be safe for a little while.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Yeah, and you know I'm going to go back to this thing about about the bathroom. Yeah, washing your hands, right Shirzad Shamim talks about that. Brushing your teeth right Shirzad Shamin talks about that brushing your teeth, washing your hands. Just be in that moment doing that thing. Jon Kabat-Zinn is famous for really teaching people how to stay in the moment and mindfully wash the dishes, mindfully sweep the floor, whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's it. The minute our eyes are open, we jump out of bed, we're heading to the shower, we're in our vehicles, we're heading to work, or we stop and grab a coffee and some breakfast, and then we're at work and the day just takes over and you arrive home and you're exhausted. But if you could just take a moment when your eyes open and just take a deep breath, even be aware of your head on the pillow yeah even when you get out of bed.

Speaker 1: 18:46

instead of jumping out of bed, get out and feel your feet just on the floor. Is the floor carpeted? What does that feel like? Is it cold? And just take those few moments and it can set your day up far better than if you wake up. Your mind is racing and you're thinking about your to-do list. Yeah, before you've even gotten out of bed, right? That's a recipe for stress, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 19:19

Yeah and burnout. Because, again, if you don't feel, I guess I'll speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for other people as well. If you don't feel like you're having a good time and I don't mean your job's having a good time and I don't mean you know you're not, your job's not a carnival or something but if you're getting out of bed and you're dreading your day, or you're dreading going to work, or you're dreading seeing so and so or not seeing so and so, then something has to give. And no, I'm not saying go quit your job and be a vagabond. I know God doesn't pay the rent. Maybe God does, but I haven't gotten any rent checks from God lately. But certainly we have to live in this world. But I think that we might be able to consider what kind of choices we're exercising or not exercising. I have left jobs that I was simply miserable at, and at one point I left a job without having a job to go to, but I was so unhappy that I couldn't even smile at work at all ever.

Speaker 2: 20:34

I would just sit there, catatonic. And finally my boss said Jamie, if you don't smile, you're going to have to quit. And I said I quit. I mean, it didn't even, it wasn't even a. I didn't even think about it, I just said well then I quit and at first I was frightened out of my skin.

Speaker 2: 20:54

This was back in my twenties, before I gave into the career that I ended up doing, which was teaching writing at a college. But before that I was in an industry that I didn't really fit in and I wasn't a corporate person, but I was in a corporation and I just couldn't stand it. I had headaches every day, and so I was burnt out from about the first month on, and I stayed in that job for 18 months, but probably because I didn't know how to handle. I didn't know how to handle, I didn't have tools like I have now, but the burnout was so pervasive in my life it affected my marriage, it affected my health. It affected my relationships with my coworkers. It affected my kind of, my quote unquote standing in the company. If they like, they're like. If you don't smile, you have to quit.

Speaker 2: 21:53

Like that's bad, yes, you know, when they don't even want to see my sad face at work. But I just made a choice. I ended up, you know, landing on my feet, thank goodness, and I'm not saying it's easy to do that. But it is oftentimes a matter of really assessing what am I doing? Am I doing something that makes me happy? Am I doing what? Am I doing what my passion is?

Speaker 1: 22:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:24

And you talked about, you know, going down these rabbit holes and finding different ways to pursue your passions. Rabbit holes and finding different ways to pursue your passions. And maybe in doing that too, you avoid burnout because you're feeding your soul, your heart and your soul and you're not constantly worried or frustrated or angry or whatever.

Speaker 1: 22:47

Yeah, it's so easy to get caught up in the fear If I don't have this job, then what? But we don't often take that thought to the end degree. But if you were to sit down and do a paper, exercise, if I didn't have this job, okay, I might lose the house. I might be on the streets, I might, I might. House, I might be on the streets, I might, I might. But then ask yourself but what if doing that?

Speaker 1: 23:22

something better, showed up and thinking about all the things that would light you up, and I think there's the fear, but it's also knowing that you can't possibly leave this job. You're a single woman, you're on your own and you've got to pay the rent. There's nobody supporting you. It's to find one thing in your job that you enjoy. There was a reason why you took that position, unless it was just a job to pay the rent. But find one thing that makes you feel good about who you are, and it might be that you like to organize. They may all come to you and get you to organize the Christmas party or something else, or it may be you're a mentor. You bring people who are new in the company under your wing. Just find that one thing that makes you feel good about what it is you're doing there, why you're even there and I know during I keep going back to the COVID, but I think we've got that to look back on. We changed oh yeah, we're never going to go back there. However, our values changed and it's now finding a company that aligns with your values. If you're one of these people who believe in the environment, then working for a gasoline company possibly isn't going to align with your values. So it's finding companies that share what's near and dear to your heart.

Speaker 1: 25:02

But if that can take many, many years, but in the meantime, for anybody who is unhappy with their work, just find that one thing, because that will help you be able to go into that situation daily without always feeling that it's stressful, because living that way is not a good way. It's going to end up with health issues. Well, it shortens your life. Yeah, burnout is not something fun to do and we're all guilty of it. I'll just do this, and then I'll just take on this client, and then I'll just do. I'll just do. And then, at the end of the just do's, you realize you can't even enjoy yourself on holiday because you've got nothing in the tank. And it's taking those little steps, as Jamie has been alluding to, that we can help ourselves, and it could be just being grateful for what you have in your life and not be always comparing yourself on social media. Determine for yourself what your success means to you.

Speaker 2: 26:23

Yeah, so I want to stop you right there for a moment, because I mentioned this before. We talk about aligning our values with what we do for work or who we hang out with or whatever it is what we do for fun, but I think before we even get there, we have to stop and take stock and do an inventory of our values.

Speaker 2: 26:47

Some people might not even know what they believe or know what they love or know what they feel about X, y or Z, and so it's not even just is this aligned? It's like what are my values? Oh, I value environmental integrity and environmental preservation, or I value, I value giving people a sense of purpose, and maybe you want to be in a holistic health profession or another caregiving profession or whatever it is. It doesn't matter what your values are, but first of all, figure out what the values are and maybe it's time to look in the mirror. Am I, you know? What do I think I stand for? And then take stock of your life. Am I doing those things that feed the things I think I stand for?

Speaker 2: 27:45

And for me, I had to switch careers and I did. I went from teaching college at universities, writing at universities, to becoming a divinity school student, to becoming a hospital chaplain, to then becoming a coach, and now I am a professional recovery coach and enrolled in a drug and alcohol counseling program and alcohol counseling program. But it wasn't like I did it in one day. It took years of trial and error and saying, okay, I'm not happy, what's wrong here? But allowing myself time to meditate and journal and make mistakes and course correct, because that's going to happen too. So there's a little fear in that, like, oh, I actually have to look at what I'm doing, or I have to look at my values, and we all have shadow sides, and so we're not going to be perfect and there will be times when we do not act in alignment with the values that we say we have. And you know, god bless us all. We just don't. We're humans and we make mistakes and we do things that we wish we hadn't done.

Speaker 2: 29:01

But embrace it and learn from it. Like you were saying, you learn from all those different rabbit holes that you've been down.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Absolutely. And going back to what you were saying, if you have no idea what your purpose is, trying different things will help you, because then you'll understand what you don't like and that'll help you discover what it is you do like. And this is one of the exercises I do with my grief clients, because I look at grief as being one of those mega challenges in life that will get you to sit up and pay attention to your beliefs. What do you believe? Is it society's belief that you've got to get good grades, get a job, get the white picket fence, get the house, get the C-suite, or are those your values? Is that something you feel or is it something that parents or society has fed you? And this is an opportunity to determine what are your beliefs.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Right, exactly, exactly, and I think that's a big big thing is just, and that is going to involve taking stock and you can't keep moving. You can't move 80 miles an hour and take stock of what's going on because you're so busy moving from the next thing to the next thing, to the next thing, and pretty soon it's 10 o'clock at night. Where did the day go? You know, I used to be in a mode where I would forget to eat, I would forget to drink water, I would go eight hours without nourishing my body and then I wondered why I had a headache or why I didn't feel good.

Speaker 2: 30:50

I would go eight hours without nourishing my body and then I wondered why I had a headache or why I didn't feel good or why I was tired or angry, or grouchy, or hangry, as people say.

Speaker 1: 31:01

Yeah, exactly when you don't eat.

Speaker 1: 31:03

Yeah, and unfortunately, falling down all those rabbit holes was one of my top saboteurs the restless, because one quality that I got to understand from the restless is when we get too close to our emotions, it's squirrel squirrel Instead of, as you said, sitting back. Instead of, as you said, sitting back picking up a journal or even typing your feelings out. I mean, a lot of people are turning to blogs and very successfully just putting what it is that's going on for them and if you avoid those feelings, they're going to help with the overwhelm and everything else, because you need to be able to feel those emotions when they come up and allow the anger to dissipate in a way that's healthy, not put your finger up on the highway because you've been pulled, you know somebody's pulled in front of you. It's being able to bring yourself back into your body with calmness, rather than those emotions, and unless we take care of them, they're they're going to do that. They're going to come out in the most unopportune moment, and I found, whenever I got too close to an emotion I wasn't ready to deal with, I'd take another course.

Speaker 1: 32:30

I'd take another course. I mean'd take another course. I mean it's brilliant. Look at all my learning and I can share it with my clients so they don't have to spend 10 years of their life doing it. But it's interesting that understanding my restless better has helped me get more in tune with my own emotions. And you think, being a grief coach, that would be my first thing, but being British, you know we don't do emotions. I truly had to learn about my emotions.

Speaker 2: 33:08

Right, and they're not something to be afraid of.

Speaker 1: 33:11

No, because they're normal.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Anyone who hasn't seen Inside Out should go see both one and two, because none of those emotions could really stand on its own. They all needed each other and they all had a purpose and a role. And every emotion is information. Right, if I'm angry, that's information. What am I reacting to? And oftentimes I think of anger as a feeling of powerlessness. Like I, I am powerless over what you're doing or or what just happened out there. And then the next question is can I do something about it? Do I need to do something about it? Should I even care about this? And you know, scherzal talks about the hand on the hot stove. Yep, there it is. Take your hand off and assess the situation. Don't keep it there until you have nothing left but bone right.

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yes, exactly, you can't cinch off your skin and your muscles and then say, dang, that was bad. It's like yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:16

But I really appreciate anger because, yes, like every emotion has a positive and a negative side. They are signposts for us. When I have a client who's so into the grips of grief and she's or he is sort of flat affect, voice is very, you know, toneless. Everything about them, it's hard yeah if I can get them to come up with a thought or a statement that gets them into a little bit of anger. Anger has energy. Anger can help you move along.

Speaker 2: 35:01

And it's certainly a very important part of the grief journey. Yeah Right, it's a huge part of it. I mean, I think there's probably not one person untouched by grief on this planet. We've all had a loss of some sort that we're grieving. It could be a loss of a life, or a lifestyle, or a person, a pet. It can be anything, right? Yeah, and you're right that flat affect is a dead giveaway, like something, something's got to give here, something's being repressed but unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 35:34

What do we do, jamie? When you know there's, or you don't know that there's been a death and the person sees you, they're going to paste this smile on their face and everything's going to be okay, and in fact no mm-hmm stop it yeah just just allow yourself and your emotions to come out. If the person you're talking to can't handle it, that's there on them, not on you yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:06

So just a word to the wise, or a bit of encouragement for those of you out there when you see somebody suffering, or when you see somebody who's maybe emoting in a way that is inconsistent with what's going on, ask them how they're doing and listen. Don't try to tell them how they should feel. Don't try to fix them. Say how are things going really?

Speaker 2: 36:36

And just wait and listen and then, when they say I'm fine, say really, really, are you fine? You know, do you want to talk about it? I'm here to listen. I can't tell you how many times I haven't been fine and I just wanted somebody to listen. I didn't want to be fixed, I didn't want to be told how to feel, I didn't want to have somebody compare my suffering with the grand suffering of all of the starving children in some developing country, because that's not helpful to me.

Speaker 2: 37:11

What's helpful is. These are my feelings, this is my experience. Whether it's burnout or stress, or overwhelm, or anger or grief, it doesn't matter. But owning it is one thing and then allowing other people to own it and just witnessing it is another.

Speaker 1: 37:29

And that can be a beautiful ending. If you like Jamie to burnout is don't carry on alone. You need somebody. You need the support of others to help you. It's not going to go away. There needs to be a change in your daily routine for you to be able to. But, just as Jamie, you were saying, sit and if you've got a good friend this is what's going on for me and just saying to them I don't need fixing, I don't need any words, I just need to be heard, because how many times are we listening to people and we're not truly listening? We're listening to answer.

Speaker 2: 38:17

Yes, oh yes, absolutely. But if you're thinking in terms of, what am I going to say?

Speaker 1: 38:22

next, yeah, yeah, we don't need to do that. Just this is an opportunity for you to put your hand on your heart and breathe and just create that space for that person to say and empty out what's on their mind. Our brains is not going to be able to fix it as hard as we think it's going to happen. You need the heart to get involved, because it's a mind body and I believe you brought in the soul Because it's a mind body and I believe you brought in the soul. We need all those parts and we need the breath. The breath is like the master orchestrator of it all.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Right. So burnout is the signal that something needs to change. Yes, you know, taking care of our body, assessing what's going on in our minds. Yeah, taking care of our body, assessing what's going on in our minds and maybe finding what feeds your spirit, whether, again, it's finding somebody or something at work you like. For me, I started taking dance lessons.

Speaker 1: 39:27

That's beautiful because it's moving that energy through you, and I always use this analogy moving that energy through you. And I always use this analogy. If you've ever watched the geographic or any nature program, you'll see the lion or the tiger chasing the gazelle and the gazelle runs off. And when it gets to what it feels is safety, it'll look around and it'll shake. How often do we get our bodies to safety? Shake? How often do we get our bodies to safety and we shake off all those neurochemicals and adrenalins and the cortisol that are floating around in a cocktail in our bodies.

Speaker 1: 40:06

And dancing is a beautiful way, beautiful, beautiful way of releasing it. And if you said, burnout is an opportunity to slow down and stop, it's a signal Because what's going to come next is like that, two by four, and it's either going to come out in some autoimmune disease, diabetes, um, or severe depression, because you've you've locked down all your emotions. Emotions are energy, they need to be released. And depression, according to carla mclaren, which is a brilliant book that I discovered that taught me how to be with my emotions it's called the language of emotions, if you're interested.

Speaker 2: 40:55

Okay, well, I'll add it to the show notes.

Speaker 1: 40:57

Yeah, please do.

Speaker 2: 40:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:01

Beautiful body of work that shows us the importance of not taking care, or what our emotions are there to teach us.

Speaker 2: 41:12

Right, and that is a great place to end our conversation. We could go on forever, I think so. So I encourage anybody here to like and subscribe this podcast, because the more that you like and subscribe it, the more people will see it and perhaps be helped by it. So we appreciate you coming and perhaps be helped by it. So we appreciate you coming. And before we go, just a quick little fun thing Okay, okay, okay. We all want to be sedated, but we don't necessarily need a drug or an alcohol or a bunch of crazy people walking around right, we can be sedated by just being present.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Very much so, Jamie.

Speaker 2: 42:31

Well, thank you, Anne, for joining us today, and again, for all of you out there listening or watching, there's a reason this podcast is called Emotional Intelligence. It's because we can take back ownership of our lives, of our emotions, of everything. And, again, that is included in what we've talked about positive intelligence getting into your body, getting present, recognizing the saboteurs that want to derail us. All of that. So until next time, Anne, and I will see you at the PQ Gym. Goodbye.